"Polygamy Sect Moms Told To Leave Children"
I have watched many times when children were taken from parents that had done nothing and children left with parents who were abusive.
But this is totally different. I agree, that children or young girls should not be forced to marry and have children, against their will.
But we have some states within the US that still allow a girl as young as 14 to marry with parental approval.
I knew a young man that at the age of 18, was in the navy and stationed in the south along the gulf coast, and he met a family there that had several children, the oldest was a 14 year old girl. The parents encouraged him to get to know her and then even encouraged them to get married. When I met her, after they moved back to Iowa, after he was discharged for his tour of duty, he was three years older (21) and she was (17) and pregnant with her third child I think. She was very much in love with him.
Under those conditions, she could of been taken from him at age 17 still a child in the social service eyes, but wasn't. No one thought anything about it. Same as many of the girls in the compound, in Texas.
Now they are saying that the call for help may not of came from the compound itself, but from someone outside trying to cause them problems, and if so it worked. So far they haven't found any girl 16years of age that called for help.
I'm not defending their beliefs, but their right to their beliefs. We are treading on dangerous ground here, as this can set a president for future removals of children not because of abuse but because of religious beliefs. If you are raising your children according to your own religious beliefs and maybe even home schooling, this case if allowed to continue, could be used to remove your children from you because they don't agree with your religious beliefs and feel that your children are in danger by being indoctrinated in it through your home schooling.
They want to remove the young girls to place them in foster care, to prevent them from being further indoctrinated in their religious belief, that young girls should grow up and be a wife and mother. By doing so they are attempting to re-indoctrinating them to a different belief and life style. Could you imagine what would happen if the religious right that is in control in Texas, decided to remove children from a gay family because they are being indoctrinated in the gay life style? I use this example to show where this could go from here. Or you are an atheist, and are teaching your child there is no God, so they decide to remove the child to protect them.
By removing as many as they did without it being their chose to leave, you open a can of worms. It is about their beliefs not the children's actual welfare.
You may not agree with their religious belief or even like it, but you have to respect their right to it or give up your own right to yours.
I don't agree with a lot of peoples belief, I don't agree with guy marriage of any kind. But that is my personal belief. To have the freedom to have this belief I have to allow others to have a difference of belief, and respect their right to it, even if I don't agree with it. This is where I have a problem with the religious right, and their attempt to mandate their beliefs through laws on others. But then if we accept that guys have the right to believe what they want to, then we have to allow others the same rights to their beliefs, religious or not.
Even though I don't agree with the sect or church, I do believe they have the right to live and raise their families according to their faith. And I hope that the Texas courts will say they have no right under the law to remove these children without real proof of child endangerment or abuse. And their religious beliefs are not evidence to that end. I hope the children are return to their mothers, unless they child has asked not to be.
Using councilors and psychologists to prove they are at risk isn't grounds either, as most of those same people would say that any child in a christian family is at risk in the same way because of their beliefs. Or that they are at risk because their beliefs differ.
Just my thoughts on this "Pandora's Box"
Charles
Tuesday, April 15, 2008
Saturday, April 12, 2008
Rev. Wright in a different light
I have read a lot about this issue. It is the one place I disagreed with Obama on, when he gave is speech on race. He helped promote the idea by condemning the Revs words as Rev. Wrights own words, when they were not, for the most part. most of what we saw on the news in a minute or less constant loop was Rev. Wright quoting someone else. That is and was not included in the reporting. Wright was quoting an American Ambassador, a white man, and when the ambassador said what he did no one thought to make a big deal about it or call him a racist.
But from another side of the church we hear another point of view through an article in the Chicago Tribune.
By William A. Von Hoene Jr.
March 26, 2008
During the last two weeks, excerpts from sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., pastor for more than 35 years at Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's South Side, have flooded the airwaves and dominated our discourse about the presidential campaign and race. Wright has been depicted as a racial extremist, or just a plain racist. A number of political figures and news commentators have attempted to use Sen. Barack Obama's association with him to call into question Obama's judgment and the sincerity of his commitment to unity.
I have been a member of Trinity, a church with an almost entirely African-American congregation, for more than 25 years. I am, however, a white male. From a decidedly different perspective than most Trinitarians, I have heard Wright preach about racial inequality many times, in unvarnished and passionate terms.
In Obama's recent speech in Philadelphia on racial issues confronting our nation, the senator eloquently observed that Rev. Wright's sermons reflect the difficult experiences and frustrations of a generation.
It is important that we understand the dynamic Obama spoke about.
It also is important that we not let media coverage and political gamesmanship isolate selected remarks by Wright to the exclusion of anything else that might define him more accurately and completely.
I find it very troubling that we have distilled Wright's 35-year ministry to a few phrases; no context whatsoever has been offered or explored.I do have a bit of personal context. About 26 years ago, I became engaged to my wife, an African-American. She was at that time and remains a member of Trinity. Somewhere between the ring and the altar, my wife had second thoughts and broke off the engagement.
Her decision was grounded in race: So committed to black causes, the daughter of parents subjected to unthinkable prejudice over the years, an "up-and-coming" leader in the young black community, how could she marry a white man?
Rev. Wright, whom I had met only in passing at the time and who was equally if not more outspoken about "black" issues than he is today, somehow found out about my wife's decision. He called and asked her to "drop everything" and meet with him at Trinity. He spent four hours explaining his reaction to her decision. Racial divisions were unacceptable, he said, no matter how great or prolonged the pain that caused them. God would not want us to assess or make decisions about people based on race. The world could make progress on issues of race only if people were prepared to break down barriers that were much easier to let stand.
Rev. Wright was pretty persuasive; he presided over our wedding a few months later. In the years since, I have watched in utter awe as Wright has overseen and constructed a support system for thousands in need on the South Side that is far more impressive and effective than any governmental program possibly could approach. And never in my life have I been welcomed more warmly and sincerely than at Trinity. Never.
I hope that as a nation, we take advantage of the opportunity the recent focus on Rev. Wright presents—to advance our dialogue on race in a meaningful and unprecedented way. To do so, however, we need to appreciate that passion born of difficulty does not always manifest itself in the kind of words with which we are most comfortable. We also need to recognize that the basic goodness of people like Jeremiah Wright is not always packaged conventionally.
The problems of race confronting us are immense. But if we sensationalize isolated words for political advantage, casting aside the depth of feeling, circumstances and context which inform them, those problems not only will remain immense, they will be insoluble.
William A. Von Hoene Jr. of Chicago is a member of Trinity United Church of Christ.
www. chicagotribune. com/news/chi-oped0326trinitymar26,0,7143430. story
But from another side of the church we hear another point of view through an article in the Chicago Tribune.
By William A. Von Hoene Jr.
March 26, 2008
During the last two weeks, excerpts from sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., pastor for more than 35 years at Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's South Side, have flooded the airwaves and dominated our discourse about the presidential campaign and race. Wright has been depicted as a racial extremist, or just a plain racist. A number of political figures and news commentators have attempted to use Sen. Barack Obama's association with him to call into question Obama's judgment and the sincerity of his commitment to unity.
I have been a member of Trinity, a church with an almost entirely African-American congregation, for more than 25 years. I am, however, a white male. From a decidedly different perspective than most Trinitarians, I have heard Wright preach about racial inequality many times, in unvarnished and passionate terms.
In Obama's recent speech in Philadelphia on racial issues confronting our nation, the senator eloquently observed that Rev. Wright's sermons reflect the difficult experiences and frustrations of a generation.
It is important that we understand the dynamic Obama spoke about.
It also is important that we not let media coverage and political gamesmanship isolate selected remarks by Wright to the exclusion of anything else that might define him more accurately and completely.
I find it very troubling that we have distilled Wright's 35-year ministry to a few phrases; no context whatsoever has been offered or explored.I do have a bit of personal context. About 26 years ago, I became engaged to my wife, an African-American. She was at that time and remains a member of Trinity. Somewhere between the ring and the altar, my wife had second thoughts and broke off the engagement.
Her decision was grounded in race: So committed to black causes, the daughter of parents subjected to unthinkable prejudice over the years, an "up-and-coming" leader in the young black community, how could she marry a white man?
Rev. Wright, whom I had met only in passing at the time and who was equally if not more outspoken about "black" issues than he is today, somehow found out about my wife's decision. He called and asked her to "drop everything" and meet with him at Trinity. He spent four hours explaining his reaction to her decision. Racial divisions were unacceptable, he said, no matter how great or prolonged the pain that caused them. God would not want us to assess or make decisions about people based on race. The world could make progress on issues of race only if people were prepared to break down barriers that were much easier to let stand.
Rev. Wright was pretty persuasive; he presided over our wedding a few months later. In the years since, I have watched in utter awe as Wright has overseen and constructed a support system for thousands in need on the South Side that is far more impressive and effective than any governmental program possibly could approach. And never in my life have I been welcomed more warmly and sincerely than at Trinity. Never.
I hope that as a nation, we take advantage of the opportunity the recent focus on Rev. Wright presents—to advance our dialogue on race in a meaningful and unprecedented way. To do so, however, we need to appreciate that passion born of difficulty does not always manifest itself in the kind of words with which we are most comfortable. We also need to recognize that the basic goodness of people like Jeremiah Wright is not always packaged conventionally.
The problems of race confronting us are immense. But if we sensationalize isolated words for political advantage, casting aside the depth of feeling, circumstances and context which inform them, those problems not only will remain immense, they will be insoluble.
William A. Von Hoene Jr. of Chicago is a member of Trinity United Church of Christ.
www. chicagotribune. com/news/chi-oped0326trinitymar26,0,7143430. story
Obama's remarks
Ok it must really be hard for Hillary and John McCain to find something to criticize. And a slow day for the media to pick up on it and run with a flat ball!
They are both criticizing Obama's remark that people around the country are bitter, he made at a fundraiser in California this past week.
People in Pennsylvania as well as many other states are unhappy with the government and are tired and bitter that they hear one thing at election time and another after the election.
Those in office are there because we voted them there, not as they seem to think, that they are better than the regular man or woman in their state or district, and are a better judge on what is right for their district or state. But just last week, we heard that supperdelegates are better at knowing whats best for the country then the country as a hole in voting in primaries or caucuses. That from Mrs. Clinton hoping that the supperdelegates will trump the voters and make her the nominee no matter what happens between now and the convention.
I couldn't do justist in this responce to what I see as garbage, so I will post Obama's responce to it.
TERRE HAUTE, INDIANA – At a town hall meeting in Indiana, U.S.Senator Barack Obama made the following comments in response to the Clinton and McCain campaign’s attacks:
“When I go around and I talk to people there is frustration and there is anger and there is bitterness. And what’s worse is when people are expressing their anger then politicians try to say what are you angry about? This just happened – I want to make a point here today."
“I was in San Francisco talking to a group at a fundraiser and somebody asked how’re you going to get votes in Pennsylvania? What’s going on there? We hear that’s its hard for some working class people to get behind you’re campaign. I said, “Well look, they’re frustrated and for good reason. Because for the last 25 years they’ve seen jobs shipped overseas. They’ve seen their economies collapse. They have lost their jobs. They have lost their pensions. They have lost their healthcare."
“And for 25, 30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said we’re going to make your community better. We’re going to make it right and nothing ever happens. And of course they’re bitter. Of course they’re frustrated. You would be too. In fact many of you are. Because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. The same thing happened across the border in Decatur. The same thing has happened all across the country. Nobody is looking out for you. Nobody is thinking about you. And so people end up- they don’t vote on economic issues because they don’t expect anybody’s going to help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns, and are they going to have the right to bear arms. They vote on issues like gay marriage. And they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and things they can count on. But they don’t believe they can count on Washington. So I made this statement-- so, here’s what rich. Senator Clinton says ‘No, I don’t think that people are bitter in Pennsylvania. You know, I think Barack’s being condescending.’ John McCain says, ‘Oh, how could he say that? How could he say people are bitter? You know, he’s obviously out of touch with people."
“Out of touch? Out of touch? I mean, John McCain—it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and he’s saying I’m out of touch? Senator Clinton voted for a credit card-sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says I’m out of touch? No, I’m in touch. I know exactly what’s going on. I know what’s going on in Pennsylvania. I know what’s going on in Indiana. I know what’s going on in Illinois. People are fed-up. They’re angry and they’re frustrated and they’re bitter. And they want to see a change in Washington and that’s why I’m running for President of the United States of America."
You can watch and listen to his comments here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow
They are both criticizing Obama's remark that people around the country are bitter, he made at a fundraiser in California this past week.
People in Pennsylvania as well as many other states are unhappy with the government and are tired and bitter that they hear one thing at election time and another after the election.
Those in office are there because we voted them there, not as they seem to think, that they are better than the regular man or woman in their state or district, and are a better judge on what is right for their district or state. But just last week, we heard that supperdelegates are better at knowing whats best for the country then the country as a hole in voting in primaries or caucuses. That from Mrs. Clinton hoping that the supperdelegates will trump the voters and make her the nominee no matter what happens between now and the convention.
I couldn't do justist in this responce to what I see as garbage, so I will post Obama's responce to it.
TERRE HAUTE, INDIANA – At a town hall meeting in Indiana, U.S.Senator Barack Obama made the following comments in response to the Clinton and McCain campaign’s attacks:
“When I go around and I talk to people there is frustration and there is anger and there is bitterness. And what’s worse is when people are expressing their anger then politicians try to say what are you angry about? This just happened – I want to make a point here today."
“I was in San Francisco talking to a group at a fundraiser and somebody asked how’re you going to get votes in Pennsylvania? What’s going on there? We hear that’s its hard for some working class people to get behind you’re campaign. I said, “Well look, they’re frustrated and for good reason. Because for the last 25 years they’ve seen jobs shipped overseas. They’ve seen their economies collapse. They have lost their jobs. They have lost their pensions. They have lost their healthcare."
“And for 25, 30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said we’re going to make your community better. We’re going to make it right and nothing ever happens. And of course they’re bitter. Of course they’re frustrated. You would be too. In fact many of you are. Because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. The same thing happened across the border in Decatur. The same thing has happened all across the country. Nobody is looking out for you. Nobody is thinking about you. And so people end up- they don’t vote on economic issues because they don’t expect anybody’s going to help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns, and are they going to have the right to bear arms. They vote on issues like gay marriage. And they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and things they can count on. But they don’t believe they can count on Washington. So I made this statement-- so, here’s what rich. Senator Clinton says ‘No, I don’t think that people are bitter in Pennsylvania. You know, I think Barack’s being condescending.’ John McCain says, ‘Oh, how could he say that? How could he say people are bitter? You know, he’s obviously out of touch with people."
“Out of touch? Out of touch? I mean, John McCain—it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and he’s saying I’m out of touch? Senator Clinton voted for a credit card-sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says I’m out of touch? No, I’m in touch. I know exactly what’s going on. I know what’s going on in Pennsylvania. I know what’s going on in Indiana. I know what’s going on in Illinois. People are fed-up. They’re angry and they’re frustrated and they’re bitter. And they want to see a change in Washington and that’s why I’m running for President of the United States of America."
You can watch and listen to his comments here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow
Tuesday, April 08, 2008
Iraq? Grumble! Rant!
"General David Petraeus' warning that the security situation in Iraq is "fragile" and "reversible" and that significant troop withdrawal might reverse military progress".
DA! What military progress? I thought it was for a political progress.
It has been fragile and will continue to be fragile, as long as the Iraq's can't create a government that works for all of the Iraq's. And they won't. They have to many divisions between their religious/tribal differences. That was been a problem within the middle east for 2000 years+.
They (the Iraq's) continue to attempt to reverse it themselves as this weeks attacks on the green zone that has killed even more of our hero's, putting the death toll over 4000+ dead. How may have to die for Bush's lies?
And we are not going to solve it, nor is our brave soldiers lives of any value to the Iraq's.
Our military has preformed bravely and with honor, it is to bad that the president that got us into this war isn't as honorable as those brave soldiers he seem not to care about, only to give lip service to, when it suits him, as he did this week in honoring some fallen hero's. He thinks that honoring them, he will be seen as a hero, but it is sad we have a president that isn't someone I would want our children to look up to! Bush is no hero.
It is my hope that congress will take it on themselves to push for an independent investigation on crime's and or high crimes even after Bush leaves office. I hope we take it on our selves to do this before the world court does it for us.
General Petraeus' needs to be replaced and hopefully we can get a General in there that isn't just a yes man and works hard to get our hero's out of a situation that they could die for nothing more then Bush's lies. We may have to look at one that retired because he disagreed with the Bush administration and was forced out.
The problem is, there is going to have to be a heavy handed leader take power, much like the one we removed, to control Iraq and settle the differences, in much the same way Saddam did, for there to be peace once more in that country. And the leaders of all the different sects, are hoping that they win and end up being the one to control the country. But for it to work, they will have to commit as much genocide as Saddam did against the Kurds and others to control.
So as long as we are there we will be a target and they will not settle anything. And as soon as we withdraw, a complete civil war will break out. We can't win for losing, in Iraq, so we are better off admitting that our president was wrong, and with draw.
I would suggest that we invite the other Arab countries around Iraq to put together a multi national Arab force together under the UN and deploy them as we poll our troops out. If they can't settle their differences allow Iraq to be divided into three regions. Place any oil funds in trust that comes from the sale of oil from Iraq with the UN and divide it equally between the three regions.
OK, I have grumbled and ranted enough.
DA! What military progress? I thought it was for a political progress.
It has been fragile and will continue to be fragile, as long as the Iraq's can't create a government that works for all of the Iraq's. And they won't. They have to many divisions between their religious/tribal differences. That was been a problem within the middle east for 2000 years+.
They (the Iraq's) continue to attempt to reverse it themselves as this weeks attacks on the green zone that has killed even more of our hero's, putting the death toll over 4000+ dead. How may have to die for Bush's lies?
And we are not going to solve it, nor is our brave soldiers lives of any value to the Iraq's.
Our military has preformed bravely and with honor, it is to bad that the president that got us into this war isn't as honorable as those brave soldiers he seem not to care about, only to give lip service to, when it suits him, as he did this week in honoring some fallen hero's. He thinks that honoring them, he will be seen as a hero, but it is sad we have a president that isn't someone I would want our children to look up to! Bush is no hero.
It is my hope that congress will take it on themselves to push for an independent investigation on crime's and or high crimes even after Bush leaves office. I hope we take it on our selves to do this before the world court does it for us.
General Petraeus' needs to be replaced and hopefully we can get a General in there that isn't just a yes man and works hard to get our hero's out of a situation that they could die for nothing more then Bush's lies. We may have to look at one that retired because he disagreed with the Bush administration and was forced out.
The problem is, there is going to have to be a heavy handed leader take power, much like the one we removed, to control Iraq and settle the differences, in much the same way Saddam did, for there to be peace once more in that country. And the leaders of all the different sects, are hoping that they win and end up being the one to control the country. But for it to work, they will have to commit as much genocide as Saddam did against the Kurds and others to control.
So as long as we are there we will be a target and they will not settle anything. And as soon as we withdraw, a complete civil war will break out. We can't win for losing, in Iraq, so we are better off admitting that our president was wrong, and with draw.
I would suggest that we invite the other Arab countries around Iraq to put together a multi national Arab force together under the UN and deploy them as we poll our troops out. If they can't settle their differences allow Iraq to be divided into three regions. Place any oil funds in trust that comes from the sale of oil from Iraq with the UN and divide it equally between the three regions.
OK, I have grumbled and ranted enough.
Blessings,
Thursday, April 03, 2008
DNC stance surprises campaigns
It's no wonder Hillary has a smile on her face this week.
"The Democratic National Committee said Tuesday that Florida and Michigan members will be seated on the three standing committees — including the critical Credentials Committee—at the party’s 2008 national convention, a position that could affect the selection of the Democratic nominee. While both states were stripped of their delegates to the convention, according to the DNC’s interpretation of party rules, members from those states will be seated on the Credentials Committee. The Credentials Committee, which can meet prior to convention, resolves disputes over whether to seat delegates at the convention."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9350.html
This could mean that the Clinton supporters on the Credentials committee from the other states could join together and out vote the Obama supports to set the Florida and Michigan delegates, and if that were to happen, Hillary could steal the lead from Obama in Delegates and popular support. If this happens with delegates that Obama never had the opportunity to campaign for and challenge Hillary for in those states, I for one will no longer be a Democrat.
If this happens I urge all Obama supporters/delegates to walk out and return home and register as Independents or the Green Party. I suggest we look at the states that the green party is not on the presidential ballot, and start passing around petitions to get the green party on the ballot for the presidency. Then cast a protest vote for the Green Party.
National Green Party Web Site
http://www.gp.org/index.php
Iowa Green Party Web Site
http://www.greens.org/iowa/
Find out more about the Green Party in your state.
http://www.gp.org/states.shtml
As a Alternate District and State delegate for Obama I will not support a DNC or the Democratic party that allows Clinton to steal the nomination from Obama. If he is not he nominee, that is the only way Clinton can take it away from him.
Join me in watching the Convention in Denver and if it happens let us walk out in protest. Let us show not only the democratic party and republican party our outrage by not giving either our vote, let us unit in giving it to a third party.
If you have any suggestions for an alternate third party to consider post to my blog and share it with us. At this point I'm open to consider any third party. Although the Green Party is more like what our democratic party use to be, is why I chose it for now. Check it out.
"The Democratic National Committee said Tuesday that Florida and Michigan members will be seated on the three standing committees — including the critical Credentials Committee—at the party’s 2008 national convention, a position that could affect the selection of the Democratic nominee. While both states were stripped of their delegates to the convention, according to the DNC’s interpretation of party rules, members from those states will be seated on the Credentials Committee. The Credentials Committee, which can meet prior to convention, resolves disputes over whether to seat delegates at the convention."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9350.html
This could mean that the Clinton supporters on the Credentials committee from the other states could join together and out vote the Obama supports to set the Florida and Michigan delegates, and if that were to happen, Hillary could steal the lead from Obama in Delegates and popular support. If this happens with delegates that Obama never had the opportunity to campaign for and challenge Hillary for in those states, I for one will no longer be a Democrat.
If this happens I urge all Obama supporters/delegates to walk out and return home and register as Independents or the Green Party. I suggest we look at the states that the green party is not on the presidential ballot, and start passing around petitions to get the green party on the ballot for the presidency. Then cast a protest vote for the Green Party.
National Green Party Web Site
http://www.gp.org/index.php
Iowa Green Party Web Site
http://www.greens.org/iowa/
Find out more about the Green Party in your state.
http://www.gp.org/states.shtml
As a Alternate District and State delegate for Obama I will not support a DNC or the Democratic party that allows Clinton to steal the nomination from Obama. If he is not he nominee, that is the only way Clinton can take it away from him.
Join me in watching the Convention in Denver and if it happens let us walk out in protest. Let us show not only the democratic party and republican party our outrage by not giving either our vote, let us unit in giving it to a third party.
If you have any suggestions for an alternate third party to consider post to my blog and share it with us. At this point I'm open to consider any third party. Although the Green Party is more like what our democratic party use to be, is why I chose it for now. Check it out.
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